Thank you for your message At this present time I feel the need from the other to validate me. Even when they are in constant contact with me, I still feel that I am not enough. I've noticed this happens in all my LOVE relationships. At times the feelings are very difficult to manage..they make me very restless and a sense of abandonment/ rejection . I listen to Gabor Mate where he mentions " Disconection " from the true self. When I hear this I wonder whether he is making reference to the "dark night of the soul"
When I have a love relationship , I feel I am having it through a projection of mind...there seems to be a neediness, as if to say ..." Love me , want me"
I like to have an online discussion on this topic when you are able too
Thanks Johann. It takes courage to admit this. I say that if you can observe all of this, that itself becomes the pathway to healing. The feelings may or may never go ... but the concern with self image (I should be like this or that ... this is the way things should or should not be) goes away with the understanding that everything is a happening.
Seeking validation is built into the structure of the organism. I don't see anything wrong with it unless it becomes obsessive and compulsive in nature where we start seeking validation from random people and strangers. The "disconnection" from the Source is the dark night of the soul where the ego is in greatest conflict. Therefore, "awakening" is surrender of the illusion of a separate "doer."
The observation itself dissolves the observer. Nothing to be done other than to watch what happens. Below is a story about love by Rumi.
__________________
A young couple in love had been separated from each other for over a year. The young man had suffered greatly and written many long, heart wrenching letters to his beloved, complaining about his sorry state of mind and heart. One early morning, he walked into a lush garden near the girl’s home and, as luck would have it, the girl was there, too. He didn’t miss a beat and quickly approached her, noting that her old nanny, who usually accompanied her, was absent.
Thrilled that after so long a time he was able to sit by her side and hold her soft gaze, he took out copies of his love letters, which he carried with him at all times, and began to read them out loud. He recounted over and over again how much he had suffered day and night, how his lips had not touched a morsel of food, how his eyes had been wet with tears every single day.
The girl took a few minutes to gather her thoughts and realized what her beloved was doing.
“When you’ve already written all these words to me, why are you repeating yourself and wasting our precious little time together?” she said with obvious pain in her tone. “I’m sitting here next to you, and you’re reading love letters to me? This isn’t the behavior of someone in love!” The boy, taken aback, responded in disbelief: “I don’t seem to recognize the same girl I knew last year! I drank from her fresh spring a year ago and bathed my eyes and heart in her crystal-clear water. I can still see the spring, but there’s no water! Has a thief perhaps redirected the stream?”
“I’m not the one you love, my dear!” exclaimed the girl downheartedly. “I belong to one side of the world and you to the other. You’re only in love with the state of being in love, not with me! You’re attached to me hoping to experience that state once again. This isn’t true love. The true lover is as one with his beloved; his beginning and end are contained in her beginning and
end. They’re one and the same.
If you truly seek pure love, keep on searching, for that’s the only water that will quench your thirst for a lifetime. That is the original fountain of purity that your soul has been reaching for, not me !” She stood up, took one last look at the young man’s stunned face, and quietly walked away.
What a kind of realisation this must have been to this guy who seemed searching for his lover through his projection...a common practise I guess with everyone.
Having said this, working through this can be a life's time journey...it certainly feels like it for me.
I faintly gathered that this complusive validation etc seemed connected to " The dark night of the soul" . However its more interesting to learn that this disconnection starts at a young age from some kind of Traumatic experience.
What I find difficult to get to grips with is the "Doer" which you mention ..
Yes it is all a part of the dark night of the soul. For some people, it drops in an instant, and yet, for others, this can indeed be a life's time journey. We are all on our individual journeys and there is no comparison with anyone.
If you find it difficult to accept not be being the "Doer," let it be so. Don't rely on your mind to find the answer. Mind is a trickster. Let life itself be the teacher. Verbalizations are only thought formations. Let the observation happen through feelings. It is a subtle process, and even to connect with your true feelings will take time. So, let things happen and just watch.
This process is certainly painful when the triggers are happening frequently. It almost feels like a death of some sort. Also there is a flavour of when you let go, ( or surrender )then you won't have the love object to remember, which feels like a ' Cut off' from something. ( HOLE)
I find that the desire of wanting the other( love object) to frequently call me, and should that happen, the emptiness goes away temporary and I feel OK. However I know that this present feeling cannot sustain itself without the love object calling again
Yes, this happens when we assign a value to love object. The notion that I'm here and somewhat less or incomplete without them. There is a measure (I'll be happy when they are with me) that compels us to act compulsively. And when they don't respond in a way that we expect, the "me" ego creates a reaction (there's something wrong with me). It can feel choking or like drowning.
The recognition of "being" beyond appearances (the images & emptiness) brings harmony as we learn to revalue (not devalue). The love object is nothing other than self-created fantasy projection. It brings a realization that "they" are also flawed like the rest of us. The "being" is the divinity beyond appearances that brings about a healthy sense of detachment. No one is special. Biological organism is a flawed entity by design.
To have a healthy sense of "self" is the need of the biological organism. It is not the ego. You can see how this imbalance (valuation between "me" and the love object) is triggering you. That awareness itself will restore the balance. Of course, things like therapy, meditation, and talking to people will help in the process. In other words, divert from one object and distribute it into many other things (and people).
Thanks, the first line of your expiation is somewhat unclear. Surely it's okay to place a kind of value on the love object as the value could mean ( meaning to you) however you mention a couple of other things attached to the love object which I realize creates something unhealthy.
Yes, I can see that the more conscious awareness one is, the more you develop a healthier sense of self and of substance.
Would the dark night of the soul ( emptiness), be connected to this situation, where one is crying out for " Meaning" in life.
Yes, after reading it over and over again, it goes to show how we identify with our thoughts and ideas from our limited awareness ( consciousness) based on life long conditioning.
The struggle that I seem to get wrapped up in, is that when awareness seems to be limited; triggers in me a ' field day' of rage and anger and wanting to destroy the love object completely and my mind keeps ruminating with this thought causing me great suffering and feeling ' Cut off'
Thank you for your message At this present time I feel the need from the other to validate me. Even when they are in constant contact with me, I still feel that I am not enough. I've noticed this happens in all my LOVE relationships. At times the feelings are very difficult to manage..they make me very restless and a sense of abandonment/ rejection . I listen to Gabor Mate where he mentions " Disconection " from the true self. When I hear this I wonder whether he is making reference to the "dark night of the soul"
When I have a love relationship , I feel I am having it through a projection of mind...there seems to be a neediness, as if to say ..." Love me , want me"
I like to have an online discussion on this topic when you are able too
Many thanks
Thanks Johann. It takes courage to admit this. I say that if you can observe all of this, that itself becomes the pathway to healing. The feelings may or may never go ... but the concern with self image (I should be like this or that ... this is the way things should or should not be) goes away with the understanding that everything is a happening.
Seeking validation is built into the structure of the organism. I don't see anything wrong with it unless it becomes obsessive and compulsive in nature where we start seeking validation from random people and strangers. The "disconnection" from the Source is the dark night of the soul where the ego is in greatest conflict. Therefore, "awakening" is surrender of the illusion of a separate "doer."
The observation itself dissolves the observer. Nothing to be done other than to watch what happens. Below is a story about love by Rumi.
__________________
A young couple in love had been separated from each other for over a year. The young man had suffered greatly and written many long, heart wrenching letters to his beloved, complaining about his sorry state of mind and heart. One early morning, he walked into a lush garden near the girl’s home and, as luck would have it, the girl was there, too. He didn’t miss a beat and quickly approached her, noting that her old nanny, who usually accompanied her, was absent.
Thrilled that after so long a time he was able to sit by her side and hold her soft gaze, he took out copies of his love letters, which he carried with him at all times, and began to read them out loud. He recounted over and over again how much he had suffered day and night, how his lips had not touched a morsel of food, how his eyes had been wet with tears every single day.
The girl took a few minutes to gather her thoughts and realized what her beloved was doing.
“When you’ve already written all these words to me, why are you repeating yourself and wasting our precious little time together?” she said with obvious pain in her tone. “I’m sitting here next to you, and you’re reading love letters to me? This isn’t the behavior of someone in love!” The boy, taken aback, responded in disbelief: “I don’t seem to recognize the same girl I knew last year! I drank from her fresh spring a year ago and bathed my eyes and heart in her crystal-clear water. I can still see the spring, but there’s no water! Has a thief perhaps redirected the stream?”
“I’m not the one you love, my dear!” exclaimed the girl downheartedly. “I belong to one side of the world and you to the other. You’re only in love with the state of being in love, not with me! You’re attached to me hoping to experience that state once again. This isn’t true love. The true lover is as one with his beloved; his beginning and end are contained in her beginning and
end. They’re one and the same.
If you truly seek pure love, keep on searching, for that’s the only water that will quench your thirst for a lifetime. That is the original fountain of purity that your soul has been reaching for, not me !” She stood up, took one last look at the young man’s stunned face, and quietly walked away.
Thanks very much for your feedback.
What a kind of realisation this must have been to this guy who seemed searching for his lover through his projection...a common practise I guess with everyone.
Having said this, working through this can be a life's time journey...it certainly feels like it for me.
I faintly gathered that this complusive validation etc seemed connected to " The dark night of the soul" . However its more interesting to learn that this disconnection starts at a young age from some kind of Traumatic experience.
What I find difficult to get to grips with is the "Doer" which you mention ..
Thanks again
Yes it is all a part of the dark night of the soul. For some people, it drops in an instant, and yet, for others, this can indeed be a life's time journey. We are all on our individual journeys and there is no comparison with anyone.
If you find it difficult to accept not be being the "Doer," let it be so. Don't rely on your mind to find the answer. Mind is a trickster. Let life itself be the teacher. Verbalizations are only thought formations. Let the observation happen through feelings. It is a subtle process, and even to connect with your true feelings will take time. So, let things happen and just watch.
Thanks
This process is certainly painful when the triggers are happening frequently. It almost feels like a death of some sort. Also there is a flavour of when you let go, ( or surrender )then you won't have the love object to remember, which feels like a ' Cut off' from something. ( HOLE)
I find that the desire of wanting the other( love object) to frequently call me, and should that happen, the emptiness goes away temporary and I feel OK. However I know that this present feeling cannot sustain itself without the love object calling again
Yes, this happens when we assign a value to love object. The notion that I'm here and somewhat less or incomplete without them. There is a measure (I'll be happy when they are with me) that compels us to act compulsively. And when they don't respond in a way that we expect, the "me" ego creates a reaction (there's something wrong with me). It can feel choking or like drowning.
The recognition of "being" beyond appearances (the images & emptiness) brings harmony as we learn to revalue (not devalue). The love object is nothing other than self-created fantasy projection. It brings a realization that "they" are also flawed like the rest of us. The "being" is the divinity beyond appearances that brings about a healthy sense of detachment. No one is special. Biological organism is a flawed entity by design.
To have a healthy sense of "self" is the need of the biological organism. It is not the ego. You can see how this imbalance (valuation between "me" and the love object) is triggering you. That awareness itself will restore the balance. Of course, things like therapy, meditation, and talking to people will help in the process. In other words, divert from one object and distribute it into many other things (and people).
Thanks, the first line of your expiation is somewhat unclear. Surely it's okay to place a kind of value on the love object as the value could mean ( meaning to you) however you mention a couple of other things attached to the love object which I realize creates something unhealthy.
Yes, I can see that the more conscious awareness one is, the more you develop a healthier sense of self and of substance.
Would the dark night of the soul ( emptiness), be connected to this situation, where one is crying out for " Meaning" in life.
Thank you for your answer .
Yes, after reading it over and over again, it goes to show how we identify with our thoughts and ideas from our limited awareness ( consciousness) based on life long conditioning.
The struggle that I seem to get wrapped up in, is that when awareness seems to be limited; triggers in me a ' field day' of rage and anger and wanting to destroy the love object completely and my mind keeps ruminating with this thought causing me great suffering and feeling ' Cut off'
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